Activity 1 – Charter, autonomy, social territory

EN Project of International Meeting of Babels and Networks for Alternative Translation and Communication Systems. ES Proyecto de Reunión Internacional sobre Babels y Redes de Equipos de Traducción Alternativa. FR Projet de rencontres internationales des réseaux Babels et d’équipement de traduction alternatif.

Moderator: Babels June 2006

PaoloTufano
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Aclaración

Postby PaoloTufano » Fri Apr 21, 2006 11:42 pm

ES
EN below

Debo aclarar que, contrario a lo que escribí, no fue un grupo que acusó al otro de ser autor de un golpe de estado sino que el mismo grupo se presentó como el autor del golpe.

A continuación, pego un texto en portugués que no estoy en condición de traducir.

"Há 4 dias um pequeno grupo de colegas do continente americano
pelanejam um pequeno "golpe de estado". Fartos da lenga-lenga no fórum do site da Babels acerca de vamos ou não enviar membros da rede para a reunião do Conselho Hemisférico em Cuba - que será a primeira reunião preparatória para o Forum das Americas em Caracas 2006, eu, Denise, Leda Beck (EUA), Robert, Cristina e Rebecca, com o apoio e incentivo de Julie Stoll e Steph (Alemanha e França), passamos por cima da BURROcracia e teimosia da horizontalizada sem pé nem cabeça da Babels e conseguimos a formalização da participação de dois membros."

Más detalles sobre el denominado ´golpe´ pueden encontrarse en el foro Political Discussion > Warning: of lies, coup attempts and dangerous behaviour viewtopic.php?t=509 donde, entre otras cosas, no se encuentra el texto en portugués que acabo de pegar.

Considero vital que en Paris se plantee este asunto y lanzo la propuesta de debatir el tema de la horizontalidad en Paris. Es realmente posible trabajar de manera transparente, abierta y horizontal? Babels es coherente con sus principios? Si no es así, por qué no debatir el tema abiertamente en vez de vivir una contradicción interna sin querer (o sin saber cómo) encararla?

EN

I must correct myself and say that, contrary to what I wrote, it was not the case of a group accusing the other of being the author of a coup détat. It was actually the group that introduced itself as the author of the coup.

A text in portuguese, that I am not able to translate, follows.

"Há 4 dias um pequeno grupo de colegas do continente americano
pelanejam um pequeno "golpe de estado". Fartos da lenga-lenga no fórum do site da Babels acerca de vamos ou não enviar membros da rede para a reunião do Conselho Hemisférico em Cuba - que será a primeira reunião preparatória para o Forum das Americas em Caracas 2006, eu, Denise, Leda Beck (EUA), Robert, Cristina e Rebecca, com o apoio e incentivo de Julie Stoll e Steph (Alemanha e França), passamos por cima da BURROcracia e teimosia da horizontalizada sem pé nem cabeça da Babels e conseguimos a formalização da participação de dois membros."

More details on the so called ´coup d´etat´ can be found in the forum Political Discussion > Warning: of lies, coup attempts and dangerous behaviour viewtopic.php?t=509 where, by the way, it is impossible to find the text in portuguese that I have pasted above.

I believe that it is of essence to address this issue in Paris and I strongly suggest that the issue of horizontality be discussed in Paris. Is it really possible to work in a transparent, open and horizontal fashion? Is Babels coherent with its principles? If that's not the case, why not discuss the issue openly instead of experiencing an internal contradiction without wanting (or knowing how) to face it?

magicat
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Misunderstandings

Postby magicat » Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:19 pm

Sorry, Paolo

But many of those questions were solved in Caracas, where people could talk personally about the subjects .
First, was not an american group and there was no coup d´état. At that time, we needed to send some representation to the CH´s meeting, and for representative questions nothing was decided on time. The people that was availble to go to Cuba was not accept by part of the Babels collective.

The real discussion is about horizontality and trasparency


Gatti

PaoloTufano
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Re: Misunderstandings

Postby PaoloTufano » Wed May 03, 2006 11:30 pm

EN
ES más abajo

You are right, Gatti. The real discussion is about horizontality and transparency.
After being in Quito and Porto Alegre and not going to Caracas, I was sad to realize that Babels is really no different than any circle of human beings. Babels is NOT horizontal NOR transparent and what makes me even more disillusioned is that Babels does not want to face the very nature of its contradiction.
Discussing projects and building networks does not make any sense if the very foundation of the structure is a lie.
We still don’t know who is going to Paris nor do we know who is in charge of making that decision and the real criteria used to make that choice.
I only hope that someone will raise the issue there. And, as far as I am concerned, I will continue volunteering as interpreter because I enjoy my work and am willing to offer it in the name of social justice.

Paolo

ES

Tienes razón, Gatti. El punto central de la discusión es la horizontalidad y la transparencia.
Después de haber estado en Quito y Porto Alegre y no haber ido a Caracas, me entristeció descubrir que Babels en realidad no es nada distinto a cualquier círculo de seres humanos. Babels NO es horizontal NI transparente y lo que me desilusiona aún más es que Babels no quiere encarar la esencia misma de su contradicción.
Debatir proyectos y construir redes de trabajo no tiene ningún sentido si los cimientos mismos de la estructura son una mentira.
Aún no sabemos quién va a Paris, tampoco sabemos quién tiene la responsabilidad de tomar esta decisión ni los criterios reales utilizados para esa selección.
Espero sólo que alguien plantee el tema allá. Por mi parte, seguiré como intérprete voluntario porque disfruto de mi trabajo y estoy dispuesto a ofrecerlo en nombre de la justicia social.

Paolo

magicat
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Postby magicat » Tue May 16, 2006 1:51 am

Paolo, I´d received an email deniying my participation in Babels meeting, for money reasons they said (they who?).

There´s a list at an special data basis for the meeting with the selected people. Just an exemple, noone of the brasilians coordinators in Caracas were even selected. From the Caracas coordination just Miguel Sojo VNZLA), Ivonne (Uruguay) and Leda Beck(USA).

yan
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Posts: 97
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2003 1:35 pm

Postby yan » Thu May 25, 2006 6:36 pm

[en]

I agree with Paolo: we should discuss the issue of the attempted 'coup d'etat'. As he rightly points out, it is the authors of the attempted coup that spoke of a coup in the first place...

There are problems with our ideal of transparency. I'd like to address these problems during the meeting. We must make more efforts to make all our processes clearer and fairer (in terms of organization, selection, communication, etc.) to avoid having a 'caste' of social forum bureaucrats hogging the stage.

Regarding Gatti's remarks (by the way: you should also write in PT!), I'd like to suggest you read what I've just posted in response to another message: click here. Let me just add one thing: I don't think the point of the meeting is to have 'Brazilian' or 'Pakistani' coordinators. I think we should not play with nationalistic egos. We are a network made up of people with varied personal backgrounds. Where we come from is as important as the colour of our skin: it is both relevant and irrelevant.

There are certainly too few Brazilians whom we were able to invite, and that's a shame. But this goes also for people from Italy and India, for instance, where the first European social forum was organized, as well as the 4th world social forum. Fortunately, there are at least 2 Brazilians who will be able to talk about Caracas: Leda Beck (who lives in the USA) and Alessandra (who is part of the WSF offices in São Paulo), along with have a dozen Venezuelians. That's not so bad, after all, is it?

in solidarity,
yan

[es]

Estoy de acuerdo con Paolo: debemos discutir del asunto del intento de 'golpe de estado'. Como bien lo ha dicho, son quienes intentaron el golpe quienes hablaron de 'golpe' en primer lugar...

Sí tenemos problemas con nuestro ideal de transparencia. Me gustaría hablar de ello durante la reunión. Tenemos que hacer más esfuerzos para que nuestros procesos sean mas claros y justos (en términos de organización, selección, comunicación, etc.) para evitar tener una 'casta' de burócratas de los foros sociales que ocupan todo el escenario.

En cuanto a lo que dijo Gatti (por cierto: puedes escribir en PT también!), les sugiero leer lo que acabo de decir en otro hilo de discusión: aquí. Permítanme sólo añadir una cosa: no creo que el objetivo de la reunión sea de tener a coordinadores 'brasileños' o 'pakistaníes'. Creo que tenemos que evitar (ju)egos nacionalistas. Somos una red de personas con historias personales muy diversas. Saber de dónde venimos es igual de importante que conocer el color de nuestra piel: saberlo es a la vez útil e inútil.

Es cierto que no hemos podido invitar much*s brasileñ*s, y es una pena. Pero también puede decirse esto de gente de Italia e India, por ejemplo, donde se organizaron el primer foro social europeo, y el 4o foro social mundial. Afortunadamente, tenemos al menos dos brasileñas que podrán hablar de Caracas: Leda Beck (vive en EE.UU) y Alessandra (de la oficina del FSM en São Paulo), asi como media docena de venezolan*s. La cosa no está tan mal, ¿o sí?

saludos solidarios,
yan

magicat
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Postby magicat » Sat May 27, 2006 1:53 am

Dear Yan,

I agree almost totally with you about the cordination subject ( brasilian pakistani or whatever). What I intend to say was that, if in the coup détat event, the brasilians were pointed as problem, we should have some of this people in Paris, at least to explain(once more) exactly what happened.
It seems to me, that noone from the brasilian cordination was selected for Paris, neither Erica B nor, at least , Marcelo Neves, people that coordinate the selection, and the latin departures and arrivals in the WSFs 2005 and 2006.

In Caracas I have the could talk to Fernanda Gerpe and Nohelia, and some other people, and the things were best understand.

We also tried to have Bettina in Caracas, but the ticket office (under PDVSA) denied her route, for money reasons.

I don´t even know exactly who are the people selected to Paris, is there any official list in this forum?

Greetings
Gatti

PT

Caro Yan,

Eu concordo quase que totalmente com voce acerca to assunto coordenação ( brasileira, paquistaneza ou seja lá o que for)
O que eu quiz dizer é que, se no caso do golpe de estado, os brasileiros foram apontados como problema, deveríamos ter alguma destas pessoas em Paris, para, ao menos, mais uma vez explicar exatamente o que aconteceu. me parece que ninguem da coordenação brasileira foi selecionado para Paris, nem Erica B. , ou, ao menos Marcelo Neves, pessoas que coordenaram a seleção, e as partidas e chegadas dos latinos nos FSMs de 2005 e 2006.

Em Caracas pude falar com Fernanda Gerpe e Nohelia, e algumas outras pessoas e as coisas ficaram melhor entendidas.

Tambem tentamos ter Bettina em Caracas, mas o escritório das passagens (sob a PDVSA) recusou a rota dela, por razões financeiras.


Eu não sei exatamente quem vai a Paris, há alguma lista oficial neste fórum?

Saudações

Gatti

magicat
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Posts: 38
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 5:24 pm
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Postby magicat » Sat May 27, 2006 2:07 am

Even Leda Beck is brasilian she was involved with the North America selection and departures. Alessandra we just had contact in Caracas.



PT
Mesmo que Leda Beck seja brasileira, ela esteve envolvida com a seleção e os embarques da America do Norte. Alessandra só tivemos contato com ela em Caracas.

ljesover
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Posts: 173
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2003 9:36 am
Location: France

Postby ljesover » Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:57 am

Dear all,

You participate to the elaboration of this workshop

This workshop will be scheduled Saturday June 3rd during 4 hours. In order to facilitate it we need to meet one of you Friday June 2nd at 19h00 at the location of the opening of the International Encounter (75 Bd Vincent Auriol). Some important information will be available at that time that could help your workshop to be sucessfull. It is of the outmost importance that one person for each of the workshop is having them.

Two persons will facilitate this half an hour meeting. Contacts:
Thanos - +33 (0)6.83.40.21.73
Bettina - +33 (0)6.23.56.91.09

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Bonjour

Vous avez participé à l'élaboration de cet atelier

Cet atelier se déroulera le samedi 3 juin durant 4 heures. Dans le but de l'animer nous avons besoin de rencontrer une personne d'entre vous le vendredi 2 juin à 19h00, sur les lieux de l'ouverture des Rencontres internationales (75 bd Vincent Auriol). Des informations importantes seront alors disponibles qui permettront de faire de votre atelier un succès. Il est de la plus grande importance qu'une personne pour chacun des ateliers les ait.

Deux personnes animeront cette réunion d'une demie heure. Contacts:
Thanos - +33 (0)6.83.40.21.73
Bettina - +33 (0)6.23.56.91.09


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